Needed a little bit of an interesting way to vent, but clearly about the whole twitter blow up over Marvel's secret invasion trailer causing the "ARTIST COMMUNITY" (quotes on purpose) such pain and devastation.
To preface this: Disney/Marvel have used what SEEMS to be a VERY RUDIMENTARY version of Midjourney, or Stable Diffusion or even Disco Diffusion to create the opening sequence for their show SECRET INVASION.
I will sort of go into the frustrations of the blow up in sections. Please note: This won't be comparing what is and isn't art, this isn't about MY use of AI or project that I am still working on. This is a community of "ARTISTS" that are largely misunderstanding some things about AI and causing huge misinformation.
SECRET INVASION: AI TOOLS ARE HERE TO HARM US ALL (THEY SAY)
Let's begin this nightmare....
Marvel's USE Of AI
This is the tweet that has the sequence: https://twitter.com/KOPF_STOFF/status/1671453927248740354 - Funny how they're really worried about USE OF AI and copyright infringement and they've literally lifted 2 minutes of footage of a large corporation's intellectual property and put it on twitter.
The tweet reads:
This is the new #SecretInvasion title sequence... Big studios are taking a clear stance on AI issues for artists by using exploitative and morally very questionable AI tools for their current productions. It is disgusting.
Another problem is that the people behind it don't even know how it works and as creative, working artists (I assume) have apparently spent the last few years under a rock or just don't give a f.
Why is this annoying? Why is it misinformation?
Sure, KOPF's tweet isn't fully misinformation but it's the long fight to deal with ESTABLISHED artists that shit on everything from digital art to photoshop use to literally taking a camera phone picture. (WHICH OK I AM sad to say I am a DSLR owner who gets mad at Iphone users - but that's also cause the COST OF EQUIPMENT IS ANNOYING).
but they call it "EXPLOITATIVE" - which is utterly misinformation.
How is using AI art exploitative?
WHY is it ..
I mean if anything a BIG STUDIO using it the wrong way or making it look like dogshit is another issue entirely.
The start of their article goes as follows: " The world of Secret Invasion is decidedly sketchy. With thousands of shapeshifting Skrulls on Earth, you can’t trust what you think you’re seeing. One second, you’re looking at Nick Fury or an esteemed world leader; the next, you see their face morph into something (or someone) else entirely. "
"Like many people, Selim says he doesn’t “really understand” how the artificial intelligence works, but was fascinated with the ways in which the AI could translate the sense of foreboding he wanted for the series. “We would talk to them about ideas and themes and words, and then the computer would go off and do something. And then we could change it a little bit by using words, and it would change.”
Well, reading through that, you can tell POLYGON took no takes on for or against AI, well thought out news piece.
Not sure, when you look at the way it was created people are going to automatically jump to thinking it's THE NEWEST Form of AI and that it all looks like ass.
When you see this it's unsure if he means "REALLY DON'T UNDERSTAND" Conceptually, or just like everyone else that uses it: We semi understand the code, the technology but we haven't quite figured out everything else.
Or does he mean: I don't even understand it I just pressed a button.
Look, I'm not here to report CLEANLY on anything - I am in a way attacking the PROCESS of it, but i'm not necessarily attacking the guy's opinion or statement on polygon.
What they always DO NOT TELL YOU IS: What process, what and how they used it.
YES, in a way I feel it looks like absolute toilet water HOWEVER: If their intention was to look as ABSTRACT as possible with giving that 1920s Metropolis feel - then I need to revisit my statement.
If their intentions were as an artist to give a FEEL and theme of absolute abstract, cubism etc - (not even sure that's the right art movement, I have a Design degree not a fine arts degree shht)- then MAYBE it's OK then.
Although at first glance?
What's the issue?
Twitter is in the dumpster for other reasons entirely, but let's keep focus on this issue entirely.
Artists that are well established shit on not so perfect artists, in fact there are artists that have difrerent styles that are rougher, not as vibrant or detailed and they're being called LAZY.
So in a way: AI is ruining a SECTION of art because people who don't understand the concept of creating art - will get shitty, picky and be pains in the ass gatekeepers. Is this AI's fault? No, this is society - the same one that will tell someone who can't read or write to just pick up a book and start 'ITS THAT EASY'.
I mean take this guy's tweet: https://twitter.com/BrianLongFilms/status/1671434714748715008
"A lot of people will rave about how good #SecretInvasion is but, this show marks the first major invasion of AI on a major studio’s piece of work, it’s utterly horrifying to think about and this is only the start. Think about all the amazing intros created by REAL HUMANS!!!"
Yea, and he's sharing pictures of shows made in the EARLY 2000s when we had software that was EXTREMELY RUDIMENTARY for personal use, and AMAZING for commercial use. The advanced stuff people could do in the early 2000s is finally available through use of -- gee let's see 700 dollar uprades to DaVinci Resolve, and 300+ dollar a year subscriptions to Adobe Creative Cloud.
So the issue = "ACCESSIBLE"
Yes, it's an issue about ACCESSIBILITY in this instance. As usual artists with LOTS of money in their pockets are stirring up a stink thinking they're going to get taken over.
If they keep acting this immature about it - maybe they should.
Not because they're wrong or right, but because ART is meant to be accessible BY ALL. Not just "Stuart Semple" or "ANISH KAPOOR" (that's another rant for another day).
If you're making AI content, and you're feeling the pressure from the big guns and think you need to back track and stick to being "NORMAL" remember this:
We studied design at Otago Polytechnic from 2017 to late 2019, graduated with a decent B average grades wise. OUR MAIN art style in design was a mixture of trace/rotoscoping of content we had permission to use, or was content we'd already created in say Second Life or otherwise.
We were told especially in OUR THIRD YEAR: it is utterly acceptable to use our style. We didn't even have to tell anyone HOW Or why - just that it was OUR art style and it didn't matter. This came from industry level professionals who understood what it meant to create.
Accessible yet what now if Marvel's using it?
I'm not even sure, the problem I particularly have with marvel using it is that you have to realize as a consumer HOW LONG it takes to produce this content. Regardless of USING AI, if they used Midjourney at all it was likely LAST YEAR they made the content for it.
They have to film the whole thing, they have to get all the branding together, edit it and get it all packaged.
The thing is? Midjourney's only been available since January of 2022, the question would be what tools besides that are available before that:
VQGAN Clip and other GAN styles may have been used, but as always --
THE MIDJOURNEY MISINFORMATION TRAIN
People always point to the most RECENT and popular tool they can hate on. They've done this with Adobe (See stuart semple's "ABODE" kickstarter).. and they've done this with so many other art tools.
Right now Midjourney's the most EASIEST tool to use, for some that is - but it's base isn't the same as Stable Diffusion.
So what's the difference
Well let's take a look:
If you’re in a hurry, here’s a quick summary of how Midjourney differs vs Stable Diffusion:
Midjourney uses a proprietary machine learning model, while Stable Diffusion has its source code available for free.
You can download and run Stable Diffusion on your own computer, provided it meets the requirements. Midjourney can only be used with an internet connection.
The only way to access Midjourney is through the Discord chat app. On the other hand, you can use Stable Diffusion via a variety of online and offline apps.
Midjourney costs a minimum of $10 per month for limited image generations. You can run Stable Diffusion on your own hardware for free or pay a nominal fee for online services.
You can use Stable Diffusion to fill or modify only certain parts of an image. Midjourney does not support inpainting or outpainting.
Stable Diffusion supports thousands of downloadable custom models, while you only have a handful to choose from with Midjourney.
Midjourney may seem easier to use since it offers fewer settings compared to Stable Diffusion. However, the latter offers many more advanced features and customization options.
We ripped that from: https://www.androidauthority.com/midjourney-vs-stable-diffusion-3327349/
Basically Midjourney is a GAN style based system, which is different.
"For example, stable diffusion is a self-supervised method that learns from its own iterative refinement process, while GANs involve a generator and discriminator. Additionally, stable diffusion is designed to operate in continuous latent spaces, while GANs operate in discrete pixel spaces."
We're not going full into what a GAN model is so here's more info from wikipedia:
Basically, STABLE DIFFUSION is a LATENT SPACE diffusion system(or model) - and Midjourney seems to act similar to some but they're different.
Don't forget NVIDIA has had their hands in the pie for machine learning for a while , and STYLEGAN is what gave us ARTBREEDER and This person does not exist, This FURRY Does not exist and other stuff.
Weirdly - I don't remember an uprising in "THIS IS ALL BAD AND WE ARE OUT OF JOBS" back in 2018 when Gan started popping up.
Why are artists like this? (or at least some)
Largely? Social media tends to bring the worst out in everyone. Despite all the ToS, privacy policies and otherwise - people think they have the right to an opinion no matter how far they abuse others.
Sadly, take instance with Elon Musk's "CISGENDER IS A SLUR" - Look, wether you're against LGBTQIA+ people or not, that's not a slur. That's a misinformation issue.
You want proof: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cisgender
Yea, it's also in the dictionary next to "ARTIFICIAL INTELLIGENCE" , "ART" and other stuff lol.
Anyways, it's not about TRANS ANYTHING - it's literally how nasty humans can get, and Look we're not any better sometimes. Nobody's perfect.
The key is with this?
Well, frankly there's nothing we can do about it, people are going to use any way possible to rewrite things to their agenda, both for positive and negative - and some people (Like us) will do it unintentionally for some things. This particular article is HOPEFULLY not that, and if it has been re-writing something "incorrect' it better be about our piss poor understanding about programming and not "THE TRANS AGENDA".
Humans will always have opinions. Humans will ALWAYS make mistakes, and intentionally and unintentionally gatekeep things.
The problem is: In this particular community it is RIFE with "Why don't you just pick up a pencil and paper and draw" - Writers said this about typewriters, about computers - "We don't you just pick up a pen and paper AND WRITE".
The thing is: If you're disabled, if you're not disabled - there's crutches to being a soul in a meatsack. (hey not everyone on civit considers themself human - so pFfft!) - Maybe you want to LEARN more about new technologies, maybe you want to just CREATE...
The other thing is: it's not really crushing an industry if 90% of the people using it are just making NSFW creations for their own use.
Largely that number isn't proven, don't come after me - I'm not knocking you NSFW PEEPS!
Like you're really going to commission someone at 300 bucks an hour to make you anime pr0n. Really? LOL, artists on twitter and even on reddit have no perspective of the current industry. it's a growing TECHNOLOGY, we'll figure out how to integrate it into society a lot more.
And look, yes there are ethics involved with NAI and other things - but i'm not going into the philosophy of referencing, styles and other things.
I'm merely complaining because: If marvel gets to make things for a tv show why can't I do it and not feel like i'm being told i'm going to hell in 30 million languages. (I'm beyond the starship enterprise for being DID/and nonbinary, let's be real, i'm already IN HELL people are just trying to say i'm going in millions of languages now lmao.)
With all of this messy news based musing - let me be clear: You are WELCOME to create what you need to as long as you're not breaking ToS of civit, any international laws, local laws or anything like that.
Without going into WHATS RIGHT AND LEGAL here in any topic or model or anything - because that's a different kettle of fish - and i'm not about to start article fights over what's clearly CP/CSAM and what's not. Let the mod teams handle that, and if you feel like something is just report it.
THE ACTUAL CONCLUSION:
ART SHOULD BE ACCESSIBLE TO EVERYONE.
This includes AI generative artworks, exploring new mediums is like painting with tempera paint as a child - it may not come out perfect, but hell you were proud and had fun.
Telling someone to stop making art because they think AI art is theft, like - it's horrible.
Yes, there are as stated, ethical issues with some of the base original models like NAI and how 1.5 has dodgy data -and when they removed that 2 and 2.1 sucked pretty damn hard (sadly).
SDXL better not suck, because they say it's BETTER THAN MIDJOURNEY - which only proves the devs of SD don't understand they're using a LATENT DIFFUSION process rather than GAN - so y'know humans still don't have brains.
Art is for you to create.
And i'm not at fault for what you make, how you create and if you get in trouble it ain't my fault.
Don't go creating something dodgy go to the cops and go "DUSKFALL LET ME DO IT" that's like stealing candy from the local comic store and going "BUT TRUMP SAID I CAN DO IT" - Just 'yknow, be responsible for yourself, and do what you think is right.
And please don't spoil secret invasion, i don't have a subscription to disney plus right now LMAO.